HARLAND Chart 0201

This is a Chart for Frederick Walter James Harland, Edith Collens, Elsie Beatrice Knight and William H Green

(1)married(2)
March quarter
1951
Upper Agbrigg
Yorkshire
as
Elsie B
KNIGHT
(2)married(2)
21st April 1934
St Peter and St Paul
Dagenham
Essex
as
Frederick William HARLAND
(fathers James HARLAND and
Albert Edward KNIGHT)
registered
June quarter
1934
Romford district
Essex
  (1)married(1)
29th July 1920
All Saints
Battle Bridge
Islington, London
witnesses
Ernest Alfred  VERLANDEN
Jeanie HARRISON
registered
September quarter
1920
Islington district
London
 

 

4
WILLIAM H GREEN
born  about
1905
(registration not found)
(too many to choose from to decide which one was Elsie's husband)
died
(registration not found)
(too many to choose from to decide which one was Elsie's husband)
3
ELSIE BEATRICE
KNIGHT

born 
10th June 1910
(9 months on the 1911 Census)
Linthwaite
Yorkshire
registered 
September quarter 1910
 Huddersfield district
Yorkshire
baptised
7th July 1910
Christchurch
Linthwaite
Yorkshire
occupation
1939 Parlour Bomb Maker 
died
March quarter
1982
Huddersfield district
Yorkshire
Aged 71
as
Elsie Beatrice GREEN
1
FREDERICK WALTER JAMES HARLAND
born  
8th July 1898
Ramsgate, Kent
registered
September quarter
1898
Thanet district
Kent
occupation
1911 School
1915 Fisherman
(UK Royal Navy Registers)
1917 Shipwright (enrolment WWI)
1920 Commercial Traveller
 (at marriage)
1939 Heavy Lorry Driver
military
Royal Navy
First Ship Served on
3rd March 1915
Pembroke I
Last Ship Served on
2nd March 1920
Erin
(UK Royal Navy Registers)
but also recorded in Army and possibly RAF)
See notes

died
13th December 1968
148 Hillside Road
Bungay
Suffolk.
registered
December quarter
1968
Lothingland district
Suffolk
Aged 70
  2
EDITH COLLENS

born 
10th August 1900
Ramsgate, Kent
registered
September quarter
1900
Thanet district
Kent
baptised
30th September 1900
St Laurence
St Lawrence
Ramsgate
Kent
(parents Alfred Saunders COLLENS and Edith COLLENS)
occupation
1939
Domestic Servant
died
8th September 1981
Littlehampton, Surrey
registered
Horsham district
West Sussex
Aged 81

5
Betty 
Gladys
HARLAND
born
7th January 1922
Newcastle-upon-Tyne
Northumberland
registered
March quarter
1922
Newcastle -upon-Tyne
district
Northumberland
occupation
1959
Shop Assistant
(at emigration)
emigrated 
to
Australia
13th October 1959
died
9th November 2007
Elizabeth
South Australia
Australia
Aged 85
buried
November 2007
Smithfield Memorial Park
Evanston South
Gawler
South Australia
Australia

married
1st June 1940
St Luke
Ramsgate
Kent
William 
James
SAUNDERS
born
14th November 1915
Canterbury, Kent
registered
December quarter
1915
Canterbury district
Kent
occupation
1939 Refrigerating Engineer Electrical Engineer
and then
Refrigeration Electrical Foreman
died
16th May 1989
Elizabeth
South Australia
Australia
Aged 73
buried
May 1989
Smithfield Memorial Park
Evanston South
Gawler
South Australia
Australia
6
Vera 
Joyce
HARLAND
born about
December quarter
1923
Thanet district
Kent
emigrated 
about
1965
to
Australia
died
16th June 2018
Adelaide
South Australia
Aged 94

married
12th September 1944
St Michaels and All Angels Woolmer Green
Welwyn
  Herfordshire
Edgar
 Howard
WATSON
born
24th July 1924
7 Whitehall Mansions
Islington, London
registered
September quarter
1924
Islington district
London
occupation
1939 Spray Painting
then
Technical Officer
Australian Federal Government
emigrated
to
Australia
1965
died
7th September 1991
Central Districts 
Private Hospital
Elizabeth Vale
South Australia
Australia
Aged 67
buried
11th September 1991
Enfield Crematorium
 South Australia
Australia
7
Ronald 
Norman 
HARLAND
born
15th August 1926
Westminster, London
registered
September quarter
1926
St George
Hanover Square district
London
occupation
1939 At School
died
5th March 1976
Welwyn, Hertfordshire
Aged 50

married
6th May 1950
Sacred Heart 
 Wadhurst, Sussex
Moyra 
Elizabeth 
HALL
born about
1931
(registration not found)
8
Kenneth 
Frederick 
HARLAND
born
12th March 1930
Hatfield
Hertfordshire
registered
June quarter
1930
Hatfield district
Hertfordshire
died
 March 1932
Bulgrave Hospital
Kennington
Lambeth
Aged 1 year and 11 months
registered
March quarter
1932
Lambeth district
London
buried
10th March 1932
Welwyn Garden City
Hertfordshire

9
James 
Alfred
HARLAND
born
20th July 1931
Welwyn Garden City
Hertfordshire
registered
September quarter
1931
Hatfield district
Hertfordshire
occupation
1939 At School
died
16th August 1993
Stevenage district
Hertfordshire
Aged 62
probate
28th September 1993
London
will
not exceeding
£125000

married
6th September 1952
St Albans District
Hertfordshire
Norma
ROBERTSON
born
20th May 1932
registered
June quarter
1932
South Shields
Tyne and Wear
died
16th October 2001
Hitchin and Stevenage
district
Hertfordshire
Aged 69
  1. 1901 3 Hector Villas, St Luke’s Avenue, St Lawrence, Ramsgate, Kent. James HARLAND (26) Trawl Fisherman born Ramsgate, Kent, wife Florence L (25) born Ramsgate, Kent and son Frederick W (2) born Ramsgate, Kent. Living with them was widowed mother-in-law Fanny HARLAND (60) Washerwoman born Sandwich, Kent and sister-in-law Fanny TERRY (31) Laundress born Ramsgate, Kent
    Concerning Fanny HARLAND mother-in-law, widow age 69 Washerwoman born Sandwich, Kent. If it was a "mother-in-law" it should be Fanny HARRISON née SPICER However, it is definitely HARLAND on the census return.
    We have since learned that James's mother was Sarah SOLLY, so we have now decided that Fanny HARLAND should have been Fanny HARRISON, Florence's mother, and so mother-in-law to James. But Fanny had remarried in 1894. Where was her husband?
    1911 63 St Lukes, Avenue, Ramsgate, Kent. Father at sea - aboard a ship, the "Pride of the Ocean" West Side of Newhaven Harbour, Sussex. All born Ramsgate, Kent. Florence Louisa HARLAND (35) and sons Frederick Walter James (12) and William Edward (9) both School
    1917 63 St Lukes Road, Ramsgate, Kent (address given for next of kin for Frederick HOLLAND on enrolment WWI)
    1920 171 Caledonian Road N1 (at marriage)
    1939 24 Clara Road, Huddersfield C.B., Yorkshire. Frederick W J Harland born 08 Jul 1898 Heavy Lorry Driver Elsie B HARLAND (but HARLAND crossed through and then later (Knight, Green) born 10th Jun 1910 Female Parlour Bomb Maker 
    Further information regarding Military Service of Frederick Walter James HARLAND
    We have found the following regarding Military Service fo Frederick Walter James HARLAND. they conflict so it appears he could have been in the Navy OR THE Army OR THE RAF or possibly all three
    NAVY DETAILS
    Name: Frederick Walter James Harland
    Gender: Male
    Birth Date: 8 Jul 1896
    Birth Place: Ramsgate Kent
    First Service Date: 3 Mar 1915
    First Ship Served On: Pembroke I
    Last Service Date: 2 Mar 1920
    Last Ship Served On: Erin
    Service Number: L6415
    ARMY DETAILS
    First name(s) Frederick Walter James
    Last name Harland
    Birth year 1898
    Birth date 08 Jul 1898
    Service number 258
    Rank Private
    Year 1914-18
    Death year 1968
    Death date -
    Corps Royal Field Artillery
    Service British Army-
    User facts 
    Age On : 17
    Place of Death : United Kingdom Lothingland, Suffolk
    Addresses : 63. St. Luke's Avenue. Ramsgate, Kent United Kingdom Parents
    Age On : 70
    Mother : Florence Louisa
    Age On : 02
    Nature of Death : Not War Related Death registered Lothingland December 1968 aged 70 years.
    Father : James Harland
    Gender : Male
    Jobs : United Kingdom Fisherman
    RAF DETAILS (This could be not our Frederick as no acutal birth date or place of birth are given but the other two above are definitely the same person as they give birth date as 8th July 1898)
    First name(s) Fred
    Last name Harland
    Birth year 1898
    Birth date ? ? 1898
    Occupation Fitter 
    Attestation year 1917
    Attestation date 07 Jul 1917
    Attestation age 19
    Service number 87086
    Archive reference AIR 79/788
    Next of kin first name(s) -
    Next of kin last name Harland
    Record set British Royal Air Force, Airmen's Service Records 1912-1939
    Note
    Information from John TERRY's web site 9/9/2013
    A child of Vera and Edgar Len WATSON has supplied the details for this chart.
  2. 1911 3 Albert Terrace, King Edward Road, St Lawrence, Ramsgate, Kent. Alfred Saunders COLLENS aged 36 Ladies Tailoring (Maker) Tailoring born Sectapore, India (British Subject by Parentage) Edith COLLENS aged 33 down as having been married 12 years and having had 5 children all of whom survive at the date of this Census, Children all born Ramsgate, Kent, Florence Mary aged 11 Edith aged 10 Then Ethel Maude aged 9, Alfred Edward aged 7 and Kathleen Violet aged 4
    1920 171 Caledonian Road N1 (at marriage) - Father Alfred Saunders COLLENS - Tailor
    1939 Blenheim, Rosecroft Lane, Welwyn R.D., Hertfordshire. Edith HARLAND (born 10 August 1900) Domestic Servant. 1 Record Officially Closed entry, (probably Vera Joyce HARLAND as WATSON has been added and is visible
    above the blacked out line), Ronald N HARLAND (born 15 August 1926) At School, James HARLAND (born 20 July 1931) At School, Philip B JACKSON (born 7 February 1928) At School and 1 Record Officially Closed entry
  3. 1910 Staids, Yorkshire (at baptism) Father Albert Edward KNIGHT a Weaver, Mother Rachel. A Harold KNIGHT was baptised at the same time with the same parents, no birth dates given.
    1911 3 Staids Linthwaite, Huddersfield, Yorkshire Albert Edward KNIGHT aged 30 a Woollen Weaver (everyone born Linthwaite, Yorkshire), Rachel KNIGHT aged 29 down as married 9 years and having had 6 children 5 survive and 1 had died at the date of this Census. Children, Doris Ellen, aged 9, Gertrude Annie aged 6, Charles Edgar aged 4 Harold aged 3 and then Elsie Beatrice aged 9 months.
    1939 24 Clara Road, Huddersfield C.B., Yorkshire. Frederick W J Harland born 08 Jul 1898 Heavy Lorry Driver Elsie B HARLAND (but HARLAND crossed through and then later (Knight, Green) born 10th Jun 1910  Parlour Bomb Maker 
    Note
    Problems with this marriage of Frederick Walter James, I suspect that he in fact was  still married to his first wife Edith, so when this came to light the marriage did not continue and that Elsie married again with her maiden name of KNIGHT. This would make sense of the way the 1939 Census has been written. When a female marries again on this Census after 1939 it is usual to put the surname of the next husband above the  present married surname but in this case the surname HARLAND has been crossed through which is unusual and the name KNIGHT put above which was her maiden name and the the name GREEN has also been added which was in fact her new husband's surname. A date is usually put in the first column which give the date of this next marriage, in this case it is given as the 2nd April 1951 which does not quite tie up with the quarter married on the BMD register which says March quarter 1951 whereas one would expect it to be June quarter 1951.
  4.  
  5. Information for William James SAUNDERS
    1939 417 Margate Road, Ramsgate, Kent. James HARLANET born 13th May 1874 Caterer, Florence J HARLANET born 27th May 1875 Unpaid Domestic Duties, then one record officially closed and then William J SAUNDERS born 14th November 1915 Refrigerating Engineer Electrical Engineer
  6. 1939 Not found
     (but believe she is the record officially closed and there for she was living at Blenheim, Rosecroft Lane, Welwyn R.D., Hertfordshire with her mother.
    A child of Vera and Edgar a Len WATSON has supplied the details for this chart. I have not gone any further than this chart as Vera is still alive, although everyone else on this chart has died, going any further forward would involve people who are still alive. (As can now be seen above Vera died in 2018, her son let me know by email and I have updated the information above).
    Information for Edgar Howard WATSON
    1939 Steamer Cottages, London Rd, Welwyn, Herfordshire. Francis E WATSON born 24th March 1895 Wireelss Cabinet Fitter, Then Amy F WATSON (but crossed through) She is down as later MIKRUT, and born 24th October 1902 Unpaid Domectistic Duties, Then Edgard H WATSON born 24th July 1923 Spray Painting and then June C WATSON born 18th October 1924 At School, There are then five records officially closed.
  7. 1939 Blenheim, Rosecroft Lane, Welwyn R.D., Hertfordshire. Edith HARLAND (born 10 August 1900) Domestic Servant. 1 Record Officially Closed entry, (probably Vera Joyce HARLAND as WATSON has been added and is visible
    above the blacked out line), Ronald N HARLAND (born 15 August 1926) At School, James HARLAND (born 20 July 1931) At School, Philip B JACKSON (born 7 February 1928) At School and 1 Record Officially Closed entry
  8. 1932 Bulgrave Hospital. Kennington, Lambeth, London (at death)
  9. 1939 Blenheim, Rosecroft Lane, Welwyn R.D., Hertfordshire. Edith HARLAND (born 10 August 1900) Domestic Servant. 1 Record Officially Closed entry, (probably Vera Joyce HARLAND as WATSON has been added and is visible
    above the blacked out line), Ronald N HARLAND (born 15 August 1926) At School, James HARLAND (born 20 July 1931) At School, Philip B JACKSON (born 7 February 1928) At School and 1 Record Officially Closed entry
    1993 2 Marlborough Road, Stevenage, Hertfordshire (address given at probate)

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